Joshi Spotlight: Bull Nakano Interviews Takako Inoue

Takako Inoue with Bull Nakano, both in their fifties. No, really.

It’s time for another of Bull Nakano’s interviews with joshi stars. This time: TAKAKO INOUE. These are written and translated by my buddy MoskowDiskow on Twitter. (Notes From Me are in Bold, like this, to differentiate from his translations)

Takako is unique because in her generation, few focused on the “Idols in Photobooks” stuff as much as she did. She was the primary “Pretty Girl” wrestler in Zenjo (All Japan Women’s Pro-Wrestling) for years. She started in 1988 alongside Kyoko Inoue & Mariko Yoshida, and verrrrry slowly moved up, behind those two, but with a focus on her looks. Her “senior” (senpai) was Noriyo Tateno of Jumping Bomb Angels fame- another attractive woman in a similar (but less, uh, revealing) position. It wasn’t until late 1992 that she kind of formed her bitchy in-ring persona and hit the next level as a performer, and became one of Zenjo’s most entertaining acts for years, being a total shit in matches to the point of sociopathy. A lot of contemporary reviewers dissed her as the “worst one” in many matches, but it’s clear she was better at drawing reactions than most of the better athletes- turns out those critics were just wrongheaded workrate-snobs. She peaked at the All Pacific Title, never moving higher, despite the fact that she still wrestles to this very day, travelling around with her very good friend Shinobu Kandori.

Part 1:

– They open with some pleasantries, apparently it’s been awhile since the two have met each other. Bull asks what Takako’s been up to, and Takako says that in terms of wrestling, not much. Once covid hit, the already semi-active Inoue’s appearances in the ring had gone down to 1 per year. She says that new trainees had stopped appearing at the LLPW-X dojo as well.

– They talk about when Inoue left Zenjo to go freelance. Bull says she wondered if Takako would start her own promotion, and Takako shuts that down immediately with a laugh, saying that’s she’s not trying to be at the top of the wrestling world these days. They laugh about how being #2 or 3 in a promotion is a much more comfortable spot.

– On the topic of joining LLPW, Inoue says that she had been asked about it by Tateno (her senior in Zenjo) and Harley Saito in the past, but the timing wasn’t right. However when Shinobu Kandori later became president of LLPW, Tateno reached out again and this time she decided to join (I think she’s talking about 2011ish but it’s not clear). She says that at the time there was a surge of new wrestlers being debuted and going freelance, which provided a lot of cheap labor for padding cards. As a “name” freelancer with a higher price tag, this disruption to the market made it hard to get consistent bookings, so she joined LLPW.

– Takako talks about how in the past, being a freelancer was an achievement that was usually only obtainable by veteran stars, for example after finishing ten years in Zenjo, a big name could continue on as a freelancer. However in the late 2000s/early 2010’s there was a rush of low status wrestlers appearing in the scene, with many quitting their companies after 1-2 years and essentially flooding the market. (- we all know who she’s talking about here, lol) (Jab’s Notes: As I, the joshi article person, have to ask Moskow specifically who he means because I don’t know shit about anything past 1999, lol- it’s apparently a pretty direct slap at Emi Sakura, who left one promotion to form Ice Ribbon)

– They talk about the origins of her commonly used nickname “Dako-chan”, which apparently comes from “Dadakodako” , the meaning of which eludes me entirely. She says she actually had the nickname from her school days, predating Zenjo. Bull seems to be trying to find the great hidden meaning behind the nickname, but it’s mostly just a cute way of shortening “Takako” so her investigation leaves Inoue somewhat bemused. She mentions that Dump called her “lovely Taka-chan”. (Jab’s Notes: The Japanese “T” sometimes sounds like a “D” to my ears- I remember knowing I had to get off the train at Tokyo Station and then hearing “next station: Doh-KYOH”. I was confused for a second, thinking “But I though Tokyo was next” until I clued in that Westerners have been mispronouncing their capital city’s name for YEARS. Thankfully I’d known my station was supposed to be next!)

– The topic shifts to the time when Inoue joined Zenjo (1988), and Bull says she had a “bullied gimmick” to which Takako deadpans “It wasn’t a gimmick, I was really being bullied.” They laugh about Bull even trying to suggest that it was a gimmick. Inoue says that she joined during the Crush Gals boom, and that business being so good meant that the juniors had a ton of extra work to do and she was so busy that she struggled to make personal connections early, only having contact with her immediate seniors (1987 class). (Jab’s Notes: From what I’ve read, having Mima Shimoda as your senpai was NOT a fun experience- LCO weren’t no gimmick)

-She tells a story about coming back to the Zenjo dojo from Korakuen Hall at night, when suddenly Bull (a big senior) told her and Kyoko to come out with her. Bull was dressed fashionably for a night out (Jab’s Notes: I assume this means crazy leather and jackets with racy photos on them, judging by her Zenjo focus video), but Takako had just spent an hour on the train babysitting a ringside spit bucket. She says that Kyoko was unsure about going out dressed like scrubs, but Takako was so eager to get out that she didn’t even drop off the bucket and ended up carrying it around all night. They ate Chinese food.

-Bull says something like “i really ambushed you huh?” and Takako explains that Bull was the star of the company at the time so there was no way she was going to say no (Jab’s Notes: Japanese work culture- if a senior asks you to do something YOU DO IT. Also if the senior seems to take a liking to you it can only mean good things so don’t blow it). This all occurred when Takako was bummed out from the work and bullying, and she’s grateful that Bull showed her some love. Bull says she probably sensed that it was a time for a break for the rookie (i.e. she was about to crack) and jokes that she barely remembers any of this (Bull liked to party…) (Jab’s Notes: YUP- all the “lol I partied so much” stories ended up with her getting liver problems later in life). They end part 1 with a bit of a trip down memory lane, talking about backgammon, pagers, etc.

Takako’s hobbies include posting pictures of herself making goofy faces on Facebook. Not that I scour her Facebook a lot. Shut up I don’t.

Part 2 (ie. the part about the photobooks):

(Jab’s Notes: You’re gonna laugh, but this is the section that has the “Most Viewed” bit on the timeline slider on YouTube. I WONDER WHY)

– Bull finally gets to our main event of the evening, the topic of nude photobooks, of which Inoue has done several. (Jab’s Notes: This was information- with evidence- shared quite freely when I got into joshi in the early 2000s- it wasn’t until searching for pics for articles and just googling “Hikari Fukuoka” or “Jaguar Yokota” that I’d discovered she wasn’t alone. I’m all looking for article pics and am like “BISON KIMURA!?!”) She says an offer came one day and at first she immediately dismissed it. However, at the time Zenjo and Fuji TV were investing in her as a looks-based wrestler, and upon further discussion it was decided that doing a photobook would work as part of these plans.

-They joke about how the style of the book required Takako to take photos with various objects conveniently concealing her bikini zone. Inoue says her first two books were like this, but the next 7 were full nude. When asked if she liked the end result of her early books, she basically says “no, they sucked.” She says she’s not someone who is naturally confident in her body like that. (Jab’s Notes: TAKAKO INOUE is not confident in how she looks)

-She was also very concerned about how doing nude photobooks would affect the public image of women’s wrestling. Bull points out that the books were released in the post-Crush era when Bull and Aja Kong were doing wild brawls on top of the cards, so the timing made her books more “shocking” than it might have been in another era. Takako says that she was worried that doing the books would cause her to be hated by everyone again. She says that Jaguar and Tateno had her back through this and that their support as seniors helped a lot.

(Jab’s Notes: Ain’t no one in that company was gonna fuck with Jaguar Yokota, who multiple people have said was the scariest wrestler. And Takako’s concerns are probably legitimate- Zenjo had primarily targeted Teen Girls as an audience for much of its history, with bikini photoshoots being A THING but not quite so, uh, revealing. But Mimi Hagiwara & Jumbo Hori both did photobooks before her- it was mostly shocking because they’d moved so far away from it, leaving everyone surprised that they were back)

-Bull remembers that at the time, the nude books came out of nowhere and that this contributed to a sense of “wtf is going on?” among the wrestlers that contributed to the backlash faced by Inoue (Jab’s Notes: Yeah if the older wrestlers were blindsided by this, I can imagine that would happen- suddenly their junior is showing up nude out of nowhere and they might wonder what’s going on in their company. It could raise a LOT of questions). Bull was against it and says that her main issue at the time was that Inoue was doing the books before she had fully developed or been established as a pro-wrestler. She talks about how wrestlers are meant to show their heart in the ring gradually through their matches, but Takako just went and showed the whole monty right away.

-Takako says that the person who gave her the most trouble about it ended up doing a bunch of photobooks herself later on so whatever. Bull jokes around, saying “wait, did I do a book??” and acting confused (since she was very much against it). (Translation: MIMA SHIMODA. Anyone else she could have been talking about did only one, and Shimoda was a notorious shit-talker. LOL at Bull’s remark, though) Takako did 10 books in total, and Bull ribs her that even though Takako says she didn’t want to do them, she must have liked it on some level because even pro nudie idols don’t do that many books.

-Her last book was done when she was 45, and Takako says she made sure she had a good photographer for that one (Jab’s Notes: AND IT’S THE BEST ONE! … Is what I would say if I ever looked at such things, but you know I just respect women SO MUCH I would never do such a thing *looks around nervously*). She says it was proposed to her by personal manager Kahoru Kage as a general photobook, with only a few nudes thrown in, but when she saw the end result it was all nudes. She says she made around 10mil JPY for the first one (approx 70k usd) and that the split was 50/50 between her and Zenjo. Inoue says that with the books, plus singing, videos, merch etc, she was making a relatively high salary for a period of time in the 90s. (Jab’s Notes: Zenjo were famously cheapskates about payoffs, like just about any promotion)

Takako being a dork with Manami & Kyoko.

-Takako tells a story of being called into the office by the president, and being praised for working hard not only as a wrestler but at these various other jobs, and being handed several different wads of cash as her pay for the month. Of course, the boss made sure to do this in front of a group of Inoue’s senior wrestlers, which Inoue says was the first step in stopping them from talking shit about her (Jab’s Notes: Oh thank goodness. I was thinking this was gonna be her getting treated WORSE because they were jealous, haha. But the boss making a big show of respect and gratitude like this would probably shut some shit down). Inoue says that she dealt with the backlash from her peers by just focusing on carving out her own niche and doing her best the various things the company was asking her do.

– She says the the money from books started getting less once the boom period ended, because of course it did. Bull immediately jumps in with “5 books means 50 million!!” which gets a laugh. Takako says she always considered herself a wrestler first, just one that also did idol-adjacent activities. She did all the same notoriously demanding Zenjo training as everyone else. She says Kyoko Inoue also made sure that she stayed focused on wrestling. Bull jokes that “yeah because Kyoko’s nudes can’t be shown!” (Jab’s Notes: lol SHOTS FIRED. Thank goodness they’re IRL friends and super-close)

-Takako says that Kyoko actually played a big role in helping Takako develop her in-ring style as her career progressed, always talking with her about wrestling, suggesting new spots she could try, etc. Bull points out this kind of camaraderie between same-year classmates is rare, since they’re usually in direct competition for spots on the card. Takako says that Kyoko was awesome in this aspect, and helped Yoshida (also 1988 class) out a lot as well.

-Bull points out that Kyoko was an outstanding high-level talent, and that in helping raise her classmates up, it gave everyone involved a better chance of being noticed (since same-years wrestle each other regularly). Bull jokes about how Kyoko “must have been planning something!” (e.g. planning to get herself over and move up the ranks), but they both agree that Kyoko has a genuine love for pro-wrestling, and would often train on her own when everyone else had stopped for the day. Bull says that “there are some geniuses who work hard, and others that don’t, and Kyoko is definitely the former”.

(Jab’s Notes: Peak Kyoko was one of the greatest athletes ever in wrestling- perfect footwork, athleticism, and a bottomless gas-tank. What Bull’s talking about here is very interesting, as it’s a “Rising tide lifts all boats” situation, and brings up how working with a super-worker can’t help but elevate everyone they work with, so long as they’re unselfish. Think about this when you think about AEW messing up its women’s division by having everyone constantly work with slugs like Anna Jay or Red Velvet- as Phrederic joked about Jade Cargill: “If you can’t improve when working with Red Velvet every month, you have no hope”.

In this case, Kyoko wised up to the fact that if she made her classmates look good, then the matches would be better, thus giving her more notice than if she’d just demolished them and acted like they were scrubs. A LOT of high-level competitors don’t get that)

Part 3:

They discuss the 1989 Post-Crush drop in business, which was sudden and severe. Takako says that they were wrestling in front of 100 people at times, and Bull says that literally thousands of fans who had always been there were gone overnight. Takako was a junior at this time, and remembers not being able to sell a single match program while working the merch tables. This was the environment in which Bull was made the top star and the Aja feud began, and Takako spends some time putting Bull over for pulling it off (edit: it really was a remarkable turnaround).

(Jab’s Notes: Chigusa Nagayo & Lioness Asuka were the megastars of megastars in joshi history, and brought Zenjo its most profitable era ever. Their retirements took hordes of the fanbase with them, and gates shrank like nuts. Takako’s talking about the era where Bull as the uncontested Ace ended up feuding with lower-level Aja Kong, who had to rise up the card in increasingly-vicious brawls and an iconic scene where she lost a Hair vs. Hair Match and sat their seething with vicious rage. An incredible cage match with an awe-inspiring Guillotine Legdrop from the top of the cage helped bring some notice as well. By the end of things, they came into 1992’s Interpromotional Era much stronger, and Bull is highly credited by those inside the industry for helping save it)

Bull asks if young Inoue ever thought she could have been the ace of Zenjo, which she immediately shuts down with a “never.” Bull is surprised because as ace she assumed everyone was gunning for her spot. (Jab’s Notes: a very interesting thing, here- the assumption that everyone is gunning for the top spot, and that somebody could be happy at a lower level, realizing their limits. Pro wrestlers are notorious grumps about “their spot” and the “shoulda-beens” about their careers and always think they’d have been bigger stars, so Takako’s take here is quite refreshing and unusual)

Takako says that she was more concerned about the wolves on her heels in the form of the very strong 1989 rookie class (Kaoru Ito, Bat Yoshinaga, Sakie Hasegawa, Tomoko Watanabe, etc). This was when Zenjo was still doing shoot pins for juniors, and Takako couldn’t beat any of them. She laughs and says she had no chance against someone like Kyoko (Jab’s Notes: Yeah, super-athlete Kyoko would have destroyed her). At the time, the loser of a junior match would be punished by being booked as a ref on the next show.

(Jab’s Notes: This still blows my mind, and I never talk about it in articles because I didn’t know about it for years while doing these columns, still don’t know the specifics and can’t source emphatically what was going on, but I’ve heard that in junior matches, they did indeed force the girls to pin each other for real to test athleticism and because the Matsunagas had a history in legit fighting & wrestling, and were marks for it. Like… SHOOT PINS on a worked wrestling show. The moves were still worked but the pins weren’t)

Takako says she never understood why they did the shoot wrestling stuff, when being a good wrestler is as much about entertainment as athletics. Bull praises Takako for finding a different route rather than giving up like many before her. Takako talks about how she actually failed three auditions (85,86,87) before passing in 1988 (EDIT: this may have been fails in 86, 87 and a pass in 88), after which she wasn’t going to throw it all away without a fight. Bull says that the idea of someone in Zenjo not trying to be the best would have been been astounding to her at the time. Takako says that the ace position comes with unique pressures, and she never felt that she would have been the right person for that role. She says that’s the spot for strong people like Bull, Aja, and Kyoko.

(Jab’s Notes: A good bit of self-awareness here. I have noticed that many Aces talk about the stresses of the position, Hokuto herself talks about how the period where she “found herself” and rose up the card were her favorite years in wrestling, etc. Takako, while a very good wrestler with tons of charisma, would have probably been a poor bet as Ace. But indeed, it says a lot about the competitive nature of wrestling that Bull has trouble even comprehending this)

Bull says that she believes that the most important thing for a pro-wrestler is to truly know themselves (and to be honest with themselves). This sounds somewhat esoteric, but really, if a wrestler can’t accurately and honestly assess themselves, they are going to struggle to figure out how to get over. Takako says that when times were tough for her, the small things got her through it, like going out to eat with Bull, Jaguar joking around with her during practice, etc.

Takako says that due to the photobooks, Zenjo still owes her 10s of millions (of yen) and Bull makes an exaggerated shocked face and says “You too!?”. Takako says that she initially had no intention of ever leaving Zenjo, but that the non-payment issue eventually changed that. She talks about a proposed deal where the Zenjo office told her that if she made a new photobook, she could keep the proceeds for herself as payment and then go freelance. However this was in the mid 2000s, and Takako’s reaction to the deal was “…but i’m old now” (meaning that the sales of a nude book wasn’t the most enticing avenue of repayment). (Jab’s Notes: It says a lot about Japanese culture that she’s talking about herself at like… 35 as being totally washed up in terms of looks)

Takako tells a story from that 1989-90 dry period, where the company president called a meeting with all the wrestlers and said that Bull would be the ace and that everything was going to improve. He then asked who among them wanted to be heels. Takako enthusiastically raised her hand but he just said “not you!” and moved on (heel Takako was not in the plans in 1990 to say the least). Bull laughs about how she took being a heel seriously, and always wanted the juniors to aspire to heeldom – and then Kyoko Inoue joined her group (Kyoko being one of the most natural babyfaces the company has ever had). (Jab’s Notes: Kyoko as a heel is like if Ricky Steamboat became a dastardly punk-rocker)

On the subject of retirement, Takako says that she loves pro-wrestling and wants to continue until the point where other people start telling her it would be best to hang it up. They talk about injuries, and Bull says that in Zenjo they would just tape injuries up with plastic wrap and call it good, but that as you get older that’s not really an option (Jab’s Notes: Bull was a WRECK during her last few months as an active wrestler, limping and wincing after every bump). Takako says that she worries a lot more about internal injuries now that she’s 50, as in a kick could cause her kidneys to die and what not. She says she has no big dreams for her post-retirement career, and will likely continue on as a coach/staff for LLPW.

(Jab’s Notes: And that’s it for another one! These are pretty fun to read through all over again- Takako being more self-aware than most wrestlers is a nice change, though both being legit pals with Kyoko turn it into a bit of a “Kyoko ruled” exchange at points, haha)