Joshi Spotlight — page 16

AJW TV (March 1995):
* This is an episode taped on Feb. 15th, but aired in early March. This one largely features a handful of “Filler” bouts, a very good Aja Kong/Etsuko Mita match, and most importantly- Kyoko & Takako Inoue vs. Manami Toyota & Yumiko Hotta- the person scoring the winning fall will challenge Aja Kong at Wrestling Queendom 1995! Watch as a fascinating little story of inter-team squabbling plays out!

And wouldn’t ya know- it’s apparently U-Channel that bit the big one and made all its videos private, which kills a lot of Joshi videos on YouTube. So these ones have all been deleted between my reviews and my posting, but at least I got ’em. Sorta! Take my word for the match ratings!

AJW TAG TITLES #1 CONTENDERS MATCH:
TOMOKO WATANABE & KUMIKO MAEKAWA vs. MARIKO YOSHIDA & RIE TAMADA:
* A match to determine the top contenders for the lowest ranked Tag Belts in the company, as the future U*Tops duo take on Yoshida (who is still kind of hovering in the lower-midcard) & Tamada. Yoshida’s in her white gear, Rie’s in white w/ ’80s wallpaper accents, Tomoko’s in black w/ tassles, and Kumiko’s in a sports bra and shorts in 1980s wallpaper decor. Man, all rookies have to dress in these garish designs, I swear.

This damn match has 3-4 “Holy fuck, who agreed to THAT?” spots in it.

JWP HARD CORE GIG:
(Feb. 25th, 1995)
* Welcome to another set of JWP matches, this time from the first three months of 1995! This features a handful of throwaway bouts to start, but ends with the absolute best goddamn Street Fight I’ve ever seen save Triple-H/Foley. This match is INSANE, as diminutive Mayumi Ozaki pulls out some of the most Satanic evil shit in wrestling against the bigger, stronger Dynamite Kansai. It’s proof of how weirdly good JWP can be, where hordes of matches that “go way too long” or “Matches that would be ****+ but they wanted to give the rookies lots of match time” will suddenly be capped off with one of the best matches of the entire year.

Here’s another single-match-review Spotlight, as I finally work through some more of the great stuff Evito-X put up on YouTube! Check out his channel!

WWWA WORLD TITLE:
BULL NAKANO vs. AKIRA HOKUTO:
(1.4.1991)
* So well into the WWWA Title reign of Bull Nakano comes a challenge in the quickly-rising big star Akira Hokuto. Hokuto’s megawatt charisma and great matches have earned her a lot of attention, but even AJA KONG took a while to be seen as a “legit” contender, so I don’t know what tier Akira was on in early ’91. The schoolgirl fans are way into Akira’s corner in this one, as this is early enough in the ’90s that teen girls were still the core audience. I haven’t watched a lot of this era of Bull (I mostly went from the ’80s to her legend run post-1992) but she’s a real monster here- typically her matches seem to feature her just gobbling up her opponents alive as a respected Monster Heel.

Bull’s in her standard “rock band t-shirt over black leotard” look while Akira’s in her early ’90s white & blue karate fighter gear, Bull being a lot heavier that her WWF & WCW stuff (about 210 lbs), and Akira lacking her bleach-blonde crazy-makeup look, appearing more like a short-haired normal person. Bull’s goons, Tomoko Watanabe & Bat Yoshinaga, are at ringside.

AJW TV (Feb. 4th, 1995):
* So here’s an AJW TV show from February, centering around a bunch of random stuff, like Aja & Manami facing off in a tag team match with unrelated partners, resulting in a high position on the card for young Kumiko Maekawa. Oh, and that JAGUAR YOKOTA is back- at nearly 40 years old, the trainer of Aja Kong, Megumi Kudo, Manami Toyota and a LEGION of some of the best workers of the ’90s is suddenly back wrestling after Big Egg Wrestling Universe showed she still had it, and she’s going to execute a rookie to prove it again.

Aaaaaaaaand all these videos are private now? I guess? That’s weird.

I had a video here, but it died.

Hey, look! Some random clip of the Class of ’89 (Sakie, Tomoko, Ito) showcasing the Rookie Class of 1995, which features… okay I know Nanae Takahashi became a thing. Kayo Noumi I think I’ve heard of. The others mostly washed out, according to the YouTube comments I translated via Google (someone quit and went to FMW). And then we get the REAL money- ROOKIE INTERVIEWS OF TODAY’S STARS! Baby Aja Kong with her hair in a big bun! Baby Manami! Baby LCO! Baby Yamada! This is amazing!

Double Inoue vs. Manami Toyota & Sakie Hasegawa.

AJW TV (Jan. 1995):
* And welcome to the beginning of 1995 in the Joshi Spotlight! So I found a handful of stuff from the early part of the year, but of primary importance here are the huge Title defenses of Double Inoue & LCO!! So this is a “two-match review”, as both major Joshi promotions defend their top gold in the early part of January 1995!

So first off, Double Inoue make a very big WWWA Tag Title defense as Manami Toyota comes back for her gold, but with Sakie Hasegawa as her new partner! And then we have Las Cachorras Orientales defending the JWP Tag Team Titles on JWP home turf against the odd pairing of evil Mayumi Ozaki & rising idol Hikari Fukuoka! Both matches are absolute bangers, so come take a look!

This is, bar none, the greatest gear in wrestling history. She looks like a goddamn SUPER-VILLAIN.

JOSHI SPOTLIGHT- MARIKO YOSHIDA:
Real Name: Mariko Morita
Billed Height & Weight: 5’4″ 139 lbs. (varies in body type considerably; translation: gets swole)
Career Length: 1988-2017

-One of the unsung heroes of Joshi would be Mariko Yoshida, probably most notable to Western fans for having almost the exact same name as Wolverine’s lady-love for about a decade, one Mariko Yashida. This is most likely a coincidence, though Yoshida’s real family name is apparently Morita. Her biggest contribution to Western wrestling might be the creation of the Air Raid Crash, an over-the-shoulder move where she drapes the opponent across her back, cradles a leg and their neck, and drops down in an Inverted DDT hold. It was swiped by Mike Modest, appearing prominently in Beyond the Mat (Jim Cornette marks out upon seeing it). This devastating-looking move is STILL a big maneuver, and is currently used by AEW’s Britt Baker, among others.

Yoshida was surprisingly one of the most interesting workers in 1992 AJW (with only four years in the biz at that point), using Lucha Libre-influenced stuff to great success- her sunset flips, quick runs up to the top rope, and more led to a very good “come from behind” rookie style that made flukes seem like a constant threat. Hilariously, she uses a friggin’ Super DDT as a mere “prelude to the big stuff” move, as it had zero credibility as a finisher. – Rookie Yoshida in 1992 was one of AJW’s top eight best wrestlers easily (possibly behind only Bull, Aja, Akira, Yamada, Manami & Kyoko). Her future seemed bright, before a horrible neck injury put her out for nearly two years.

Akira Hokuto retired this year! Until she didn’t!

JOSHI IN 1994:

And now we’ve reached the end of what I can find for Joshi in 1994, so here’s my summation for the year! And it was a big one, with the future looking bright! Until it wasn’t! Read on!

Joshi had its biggest year ever in 1993, thanks to the massive Dream Slam, Thunder Queen Battle, and more, all culminating in St. Battle Final by the end of the year- 1994 had a lot to live up to, but went from strength to strength as they cap things off with the biggest joshi card in history at the Tokyo Dome- Big Egg Wrestling Universe is, to this day, the largest gate for any women’s pro wrestling event. Though they didn’t come close to filling the Dome and that’s hard to call a major success, it’s definitely made an impact. During most of the year, Akira Hokuto proclaims the “Dangerous Queen Final Countdown” as she prepares to leave AJW and move to Mexico, so she has all kinds of amazing Dream Matches in cards until Summer… and then she’s just back in AJW and that’s that for a while.

The year starts with a brutal, bloody Aja/Hotta match that sees Aja tear Hotta’s hand apart and dominate her. Kyoko beats Yamada for the All Pacific Title and that’s mostly it for Yamada’s push. The Tag Champs reign supreme for ages until October, and Manami Toyota’s push builds and builds throughout the year. She & Hokuto are the obvious work-horses of the year, putting out crazy batting-averages for great stuff. The year gets off to a great start with March’s Wrestling Queendom ’94, having a ridiculous string of awesome matches (Kansai/Sakie- ****1/4, Manami/Plum Mariko- ****1/2, LCO vs. Ozaki/Cutie- ****3/4, Aja/Bull vs. Kandori/Hokuto- *****), capping off the amazing Hokuto/Kandori feud with a story of them gaining respect for each other in a tag match against the former and current Aces of AJW- Kandori helps Hokuto pin Aja Kong to win the match, then slaps her hand out of respect and marches off leading her LLPW ring girls to the back. Just an amazing moment capping off a huge card.

AJW TAG LEAGUE THE BEST 1994:
(10.12.1994)
* And now the final VHS release of 1994 for Joshi, as we end the 1994 Tag League! It looks like tonight it’s a three-way “Playoff Final” for the top ranks, as Aja Kong & Reggie Bennett, Kyoko Inoue & Sakie Hasegawa and Manami Toyota & Takako Inoue all end up tied (aw man, poor LCO)! Tragically, we’ve missed Kumiko Maekawa vs. Yoko Takahashi in rookie mayhem, and some showing of their trip to Bali in mid-December. Last year’s show saw a legendary bout in which Manami Toyota & Akira Hokuto beat Kyoko Inoue & Toshiyo Yamada in a PAIR of ***** matches back-to-back (the only time in history this has been done), so this show has an awfully big pair of shoes to fill.

Tag League THE BEST 1994:
MARIKO YOSHIDA & CHAPARRITA ASARI vs. TOMOKO WATANABE & RIE TAMADA:
* Both teams are ranked at the bottom, making this a solid early match. Tomoko & Rie both look heartbroken for their low standing, while the other two are Deer-In-Headlights. Yoshida’s in that gloriously terrible blue/pink/yellow thing, ASARI’s in light blue & silver (hey, that’s a new one!), Tomoko’s in black & white, and Rie’s in white & orange.

The Main Event- Aja vs. Hotta for the WWWA World Title.

AJW WRESTLEMARINEPIAD ’94 EX:
(12/4/94)
* Here’s an odd little show near the end of the year- a mere TWO WEEKS after Big Egg Wrestling Universe in the Tokyo Dome, we get a reasonably-big show that features a WWWA World Title defense, “new act” Blizzard Yuki against a Main Eventer, and more. Though… only the top three matches are particularly big- everything else looks like “card filler”. Thankfully I found the card on Ringstarfield’s channel, and… oh thank god, we have FULL VIDEOS of each match! Like, not all cut up into separate parts! These videos are only NINE years old, meaning that YouTube then allowed people to upload things over 10 minutes long, so we get 26-30 minute videos in some instances. That makes watching this a whole lot more pleasant.

“TL;DR- Why Should I Care?”: Well, two weeks after the biggest show in AJW’s history, they’re back AGAIN pitting superstars against each other. Most are beat to hell and shooting more for *** than ****, but check out Manami being a crazy person in another extremely long eye-opening match to put over a big new act.

AJW RECAPS (Nov. 1994):
* So we’ve hit the stage in my Recaps where there are a couple shows I’ve already done, but they’re of vast importance to Joshi as a whole, so I’ll recap them here, in their own post. Plus there’s a Mariko Yoshida tape I can’t find (though I’ve already reviewed some of the matches) and an AJW TV show in there, recapping the V*Top Tournament.

MARIKO YOSHIDA RE-CHALLENGE 7 MATCH:
(16.07.1994-09.10.1994)

* AJW thought enough of returning Mariko Yoshida to give her a commercial tape release of her attempts to get back in the game. Unfortunately, none of this can be found on YouTube or DailyMotion save what I’ve already reviewed. But here’s a list of what’s on it:

JWP STARS ON TOUR:
(Oct. 30th, 1994)
* As we continue through the last part of 1994, here’s a set of JWP bouts from a VERY dark arena, with a bizarre set-up- it’s an elevated stage in an auditorium like how you watch lectures and live theater, so the fans can only see one side of the ring (you can only see this in the final bout). It has two AJW/JWP Junior League matches (where rookie wrestlers fight each other), and is capped off by an 8-woman tag from people who’ve already wrestled that day.

So it’s an interesting look at tiny rookies putting in 10-minute sprints (a welcome change from “20 minutes, but half is padding”), and leads to some very good matches, especially considering the last one is everyone’s second match of the evening! So come take a look at Joshi’s #2 (or #3 if you REALLY like Megumi Kudo’s FMW stuff) promotion when left mostly to its own devices!

AJW/JWP JUNIOR LEAGUE:
CANDY OKUTSU (JWP) vs. RIE TAMADA (AJW):
* An interpromotional rookie match, as the lower-card wrestlers get more shots against each other. Candy’s in black & white, and Rie’s in white & blue.

Rapid-fire stuff to start, as they jockey for position and Candy hits rollups, but Rie controls with a chinlock and stretching. Candy comes back with her own, and the camera bounces around a lot, doing random close-ups. Candy tries Manami’s Running No-Hands Springboard move again, but overshoots her feet and falls- Rie covers for it and Candy soon hits a Run-Up Cross-Body out of the corner instead for two. Backslide gets two for Rie, but Candy slips AGAIN on a Run-Up, then tries again and Rie simply dodges. Rie hits two missile kicks for two, then two spinning cross-bodies for the same. Candy does her corner-dodge missile kick, and another big one gets two. Flying Splash… Rie “Fuck YOU!” bridges out! Candy tries and tries for a German, finally hitting it for two. She aims for another, but Rie rolls forward and wraps her up for the three (10:45).

So here’s one recommended by Evito-X- a semi-famous “Trios Match in the Rain” featuring an outdoor rooftop show in a torrential downpour, giving us one of the better, more memorable “settings” for a wild brawl you’ll ever see. While wrestling in the rain is hardly ideal, this is exactly how things become legendary and remembered- every single camera becomes dotted with water and everyone has to try not to kill themselves while still selling the slipperiness of the mat and ramp, and it turns into great fun immediately, and one of AJW’s best matches. Nothing sells “chaos” like seeing people slide around every time they hit a move while ring girls desperately squeegee the ring.

SPECIAL SIX EXPLOSION:
LIONESS ASUKA & LAS CACHORRAS ORIENTALES (Mima Shimoda & Etsuko Mita) (Free Agents) vs. MANAMI TOYOTA, KAORU ITO & NANAE TAKAHASHI (AJW):
(07.11.1999)
* Welcome to a famous match in Joshi circles- the Fuji TV rooftop rainy-day match! As AJW at this point was often on the rooftop of the Fuji TV building on Odaiba Island in Tokyo (Yay! A place I’ve been!), they had to deal with inclement weather at times, and never more inclement than THIS- this becomes one of very few matches by a prominent company that features a massive downpour hitting the ring during a match. One featuring many of the top stars of the day, too- Lioness Asuka, huge star of the ’80s, teams up with top tag team freelancers (and current WWWA Tag Team Champions) LCO against AJW’s top two solo acts and rising star Nanae. Grumpy-ass Asuka carries a table to the ring with her, while LCO are in their best outlandish regalia. The freelancers are all in black & silver variants of their regular gear (Asuka’s shirt & pants, Shimoda’s two-piece tasseled bit, etc.). Nanae, who I’ve not really seen before, is a stocky girl in a white & purple thing with triangular fabric across the front. Manami’s in red (she’d dropped the “always in black” thing a ways back I think) & Ito’s in a black & blue MVP-style singlet.

Eagle Sawai in one of her more conservative outfits.

JOSHI SPOTLIGHT- EAGLE SAWAI:
Real Name: Tomoko Sawai
Billed Height & Weight: 5’7″ 242 lbs.
Career Length: 1986-2007

-And now we come to an odd woman out in a lot of Joshi- the easy #2 wrestler in LLPW during the Interpromotional Era, but one that never got a lot of credit, respect, or big matches… despite being one of the more protected people on the cards. Fighting using a heavyweight power style despite dressing like the Queen of Hearts, she definitely stood out from the crowd, especially with LLPW’s lower-budget gear. She isn’t considered one of the top workers of her era, but at the same point isn’t derided as over-pushed, either. I mean, LLPW was a pretty small company with not a lot of stars- she’s probably as good a #2 as they were gonna get. And if put against a top-flight worker, she didn’t look out of place or embarrassingly-slow- she was a good, solid “Big Woman Worker”. Her “Vader Attacks” looked LEGIT, and she was believable pinning people with simple lariats and powerbombs- her stuff hit and hit hard.

Eagle is… all in all, pretty okay. Not great, but pretty good. Sometimes. Her career highlight is probably a ****-ish match with Akira Hokuto at Big Egg Wrestling Universe, where Eagle is LLPW’s entrant into the V*Top tournament, losing in the first round. Naturally, most joshi had their best matches with Hokuto, and this is the only time I think I’ve seen Eagle hit that high. But as LLPW was a very small company (a card with 5-6 matches typically involved the entire roster!), she wouldn’t have had as many opportunities. Her ring gear is TREMENDOUS, though- these huge, ostentatious mega-gowns and flowing robes make her look like a Disney Villain, and her “pretty face, but a BBW” thing makes her seem even prouder about it. Like “Yeah, I have 110 lbs. on Takako Inoue but I’m still FINE”.

AJW TV (Oct. 31st):
* Another week of AJW TV hits us, and we have a bunch of matches, including a very big Manami Toyota vs. Takako Inoue All Pacific/IWA Title match, plus Kyoko Inoue vs. Reggie Bennett! This show features a huge amount of hype for Big Egg Wrestling Universe– the upcoming Tokyo Dome show. And more Japanese commercials! An English voiceover describes to pretty-boy actors in the film Night Head, while we also hear about the Japan Supercross ’94, a serious-looking movie called Stay Gold (the producer an Outsiders fan?) and TUNNELS having a concert tour. Oh boy- TUNNELS!

SUZUKA MINAMI & KAORU ITO vs. SAKIE HASEGAWA & MARIKO YOSHIDA:
* Wow, Sakie & Yoshida- old rivals- are now paired up against the low-tier team of Minami & Ito. Yoshida’s in her blue, pink & yellow “M Y” gear, Sakie’s in all the splatter-colors, Ito’s in green & yellow, and Minami’s in some odd, loose-fitting shiny lavender thing.

A one-match Spotlight today, but it’s a doozy, and one I’ve been waiting to see for a year or so. Come see what Dave Meltzer considered ****3/4 in 1991!

ALL-PACIFIC TITLE:
MANAMI TOYOTA vs. SUZUKA MINAMI:
(17.03.1991)
* Yes! This one has finally been uploaded! Our own Evito-X popped this one onto YouTube recently, giving us a match I’d been looking for for a good while- Meltzer rated this ****3/4, which in “1991 Talk” means it’s gonna have one fuck of a pace. Toyota, holding the White Belt for half a year by this point, is increasingly over and getting very legit, though 1992 was when she started REALLY getting made (and it took 1994 for her to become a worthy Main Eventer)- Suzuka is older and more experienced, and at the peak of her singles credibility, though she only held that belt via a referee decision when Aja Kong got disqualified for cheating too much (and you’ve seen how difficult it is to get DQ’d in AJW). Toyota’s in her early ’90s gear- the all-black, un-detailed leotard, while Suzuka’s in a black & yellow basic singlet. And I have to use those names specifically because “Manami vs. Minami” would get way too confusing.

JWP IN 1994 (Sept.-Dec.):
* 1994 is by far JWP’s best-represented year on YouTube, owing to Rico Kasai’s channel. 1995 and on are barely there at all, so this might be the last big update. We start off with a pair of interpromotional matches with GAEA Japan, as Chigusa Nagayo was on good terms with JWP, and a stop at an interesting-looking small arena that features one of Devil Masami’s first title defenses as JWP Openweight Champion, as she recently beat Dynamite Kansai (as reviewed here: https://blogofdoom.com/index.php/2019/12/11/joshi-spotlight-devil-masami/ -the YouTube clip has since been taken down, however) while in her “Super Heel Devil Masami” persona (wrestles like Taker, looks like Demolition Crush).

CHIGUSA NAGAYO & KAORU (GAEA Japan) vs. CUTIE SUZUKI & HIKARI FUKUOKA (JWP):
(Sept. 1994)
* And so Chigusa Nagayo, biggest star of ’80s Joshi, is returning to full-time, but is having disagreements with AJW management (who, to be fair, don’t need an extra person clogging up shows), and is so working for JWP as she prepares to start up GAEA in early 1995. Already my mind is blown because Chigusa is wearing black and GREEN. I have literally never in my life seen her wear anything that didn’t have red in it. She wore that in the goddamn WWF! KAORU’s in black, Cutie’s in white & gold, and Hikari’s in the Tarzan gear. The expressions in the staredown here are great, as KAORU has this “fuckin’ right us vets are gonna kill you kids” death glare, Chigusa’s very calm and serious (with a taped arm), and the idols are doing this big “I’m nervous and I respect you, but I’m trying really hard to look confident and defiant”.

Debbie Malenko with her regular partner, Sakie Hasegawa.

JOSHI SPOTLIGHT- DEBBIE MALENKO:
Real Name: Debbie Drake
Billed Height & Weight: 5’6″ 143 lbs.
Career: 1990-1993, Barely-Active since 2000-something

-So one of the few bad things during AJW’s rise in the early 1990s was the very short career of the promising Debbie Malenko, who was the sole foreigner on many AJW shows of the time period. She had formed a spunky undercard tag team with Sakie Hasegawa, and was utilizing some very unique stuff for the “GO GO GO!” joshi style (being more of an American-style technical wrestler with precision offense taught by Boris Malenko, who let her use his worked surname). Hitting big-time STFs and stuff as major offense was typically not done around this point, as AJW’s style was more “you sit on them for stretching to kill time between major periods and to take a rest”, save a few exceptions. Best of all was the duo dressing like the Steiner Brothers in distinctive multicolored amateur-wrestling singlets and even doing the “Rick Steiner barking run” and Debbie crawling under Sakie for the “Steiner Pose”. Great midcard tag stuff.

AJW TV (Oct. 13th, 1994):
* So we’ve entered a strange bit of time in available Joshi matches, as we just started Tag League THE BEST 1994, but there’s two months before it ends and in the meantime there’s a dozen random JWP & LLPW bouts available, PLUS some shows I already reviewed fall here, such as the major Tokyo Dome show!

But for now, here’s another edition of the AJW TV show, with LCO fighting the monster squad of Aja Kong & Reggie Bennett, plus Double Inoue vs. Sakie Hasegawa & Toshiyo Yamada. This aired in October but was taped in August, as we seem to miss September ENTIRELY for AJW releases (I guess they made one commercial tape, with an interesting Manami/Sakie/Kyoko vs. Reggie/Aja/Ito match on it). But thankfully we’re back to Japanese commercials! Clipper, the chip-like snack with the kawaii mascot! A Japanese version of A Christmas Carol! And they announce Sakie Hasegawa’s new persona as the manga character brought to life- Blizzard Yuki! This would be them finally shooting their shot at making her a huge star.

The best match of the show, BY FAR- Las Cachorras Orientales vs. Manami/Takako.

TAG LEAGUE THE BEST (Part One):
(10.08.1994)
* And 3/4 through the year, we hit another Tag League THE BEST installment! This one features some established squads, plus weird random duos (Manami/Takako?). There’s also a “Junior League” of rookies between AJW & JWP, giving us Interpromotional Rookie Mayhem once more! At last! this one is highlighted by a TREMENDOUS LCO vs. Manami/Takako match, as well as showcases for Mariko Yoshida, Sakie Hasegawa, and the monster Aja Kong/Reggie Bennett team.

“TL;DR- Why Should I Care?”: LCO vs. Manami/Takako is another classic in a long line of great Toyota & LCO matches this year. The rest of the card is mainly about the rookies and some rising up the card for Sakie Hasegawa against an old standby “gatekeeper”, but the main is also very good.

Crane is on the right, Dump Matsumoto on the left.

JOSHI SPOTLIGHT- CRANE YU:
Real Name: Yukari Honjo (aka Masked Yu, Dynamite Jack)
Billed Height & Weight: 5’8″ 220 lbs.
Career Length: 1980-1989

-So on the famous Atrocious Alliance bouts of the 1980s, you’ll see a pretty wild assortment of punk rock girl characters backing up the legendary Dump Matsumoto. Most notable of these is a baby Bull Nakano, but there’s also this HUGE, muscular woman with curly hair, and one that’s effectively a “Clone Buddy” of Dump (like how WWF would add Typhoon to Earthquake and Phineas to Henry Godwinn). That’d be Crane Yu, the former “Masked Yu”, who continues to befuddle Westerners as to the naming theme of the group, as according to our own Manjiimortal, they are named after CONSTRUCTION VEHICLES, not animals- Dump Truck, Bulldozer and Crane. So the “Crane” in her name isn’t the animal, nor is Bull’s “Bull”. That there is a Grizzly on the team confuses this further, though.